Sign On: Diploma Holder = "Farmer Officer", Worth It? Wise?

Rock^Star SG

well, since you are a dip holder, u may want to think ahead. People change, mature and grow with time. You may be contented with the initial salary of 2k plus, that actually is quite "a lot" for any one just out of school, fresh into NS whatever. But as you progress down the years, you may find that those fellow officers with degrees are promoted ahead of you...will you feel like you have underachieved? Or are you just content doing your own thing? Will you look at the SAF career 10 years down the road the same positive way that you did 10 years back?

If you think you will be a happy go lucky chap, then perhaps just sign on as a dip officer. But just don't sweat when you see your peers with degrees given the priority for promotion.

Rock^Star SG

Threadstarter, don't be disheartened by the comments made by these losers.

I assume you're new to this forum. Stay a few more days and you will also know like everyone else here that none of these people could be officer or made it to OCS when they were in NS.

They would always say (in their broken English) that they didn't care, had no motivation or that now all they care about is money (to hint that they are towards the path of making any at all and that they don't care for NS or the military). Which is why as a bunch of reservists who have long ORD they're in this forum day and night still obsessed about NS and the SAF. LOL! Yup I know it's funny.

To be honest with you, even the most uneducated regular officer (no degree or diploma) I know is earning a good living and just bought a condominium with his wife and he has two kids and he's only turning 31 this year. These people who are talking cock all day long about SAF and NS in this forum (you know how the most 'free' people are normally the ones with the least money and success and the most time on their hands, esp in SG, because even Warren Buffett in the US is very busy despite being the world #2 richest man), I think won't even earn what he is earning when they turn 40. Even though that guy does not have a degree and is in the SAF. To add insult to injury, no SAF regular officer I know from farmer to scholar bothers about online government rants and few know the existence of these losers and this forum.

As for you, sign on by all means if you have the genuine interest and passion for the military but do so after conclusive and analytical consideration after you have experienced OCS. BMT is a start but BMT does not give one an accurate experience of commanding. Some of the regular officers told me that even OCS doesn't give an accurate reflection of the life of a career officer but it's closer than BMT.

You be surprised how free many of the rich can be. It's like an auto-pilot after many years of hard work. They are have time on their hands because they employ the capable to run and expand their businesses.

So I guess you don't know shit huh.

insidestory SG

So I guess you don't know shit huh.

You sound like a moron, and maybe because you are. The only rich people who are free are the ones who benefited from the wealth without being the one who built it. Why am I wasting my time telling you what I know? You have no idea who you're talking to. Oh well..go wank the farmer Lokey. He needs it and thats why he comes in here. To wank off low self farmer esteem away. Haha.

insidestory SG

Try to focus on the TS topic, answering his questions. And only make comments on fact and figures that you hold in hands, else these comments will be groundless and worthless.

In Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, self actualization is the most important psychologically needs for motivations and satisfaction. The definition for success cannot be valuated by earning alone. When you reach a certain level of maturity, when all the physiological, safety, love/belonging, esteems needs have been satisified. Earning alone do not bring you happiness.

Hey hi farmer, how's the day been for you hoeing and ploughing in the hot sun? Look at you trying hard to convince TS and everyone here that you're not a farmer and that you're all that. But every letter and word of yours is a dead giveaway, totally exposing your farmer face grinning like a retard in this universe. Do you not know what a farmer is? Do you not know that YOU are a farmer? What right do you have to discourage people from pursuing their dreams or denigrate others and refer to them as the very thing that you are? When hello, newsflash, YOU ARE AN EFFING FARMER. Where did you graduate from? Didn't you end up in a local uni dump? Do you not know what an effing farmer is? Look into the mirror. http://sgforums.com/forums/1390/topics/382456

YOU are a farmer. Now now don't forget that. It amuses me utterly whenever I bump into a farmer like you back in Singapore. I don't really meet such farmers when I was overseas. It is back in SG, where there is this large bunch of people, who form the proletariat masses, and who think that they are part of the elite and have no idea who and how much they are worth.

There is no crime in being a proleteriat peasant like you. Absolutely no crime. Its when now and then, a frog farmer like you who fancies yourself a prince comes along and shits all over yourself, attention is demanded and people in the know point their finger and laugh.

People like you, are aplenty. From a nondescript background and lacking the intelligence to move up the ladder of social mobility. You were one of the losers who ended up in a loser local university and think you've ascended to be a yuppie earning your measly pathetic two to three thousand sg dollars of starting salary, working as a farmer, maybe something lowdown like doing Operations (back office) in a bank. LOL. Freaking loser who hasn't seen the world and can't spell or string a sentence in English properly and is a complete utter disgrace to Singapore if ever in contact with foreigners. So thank God you're stuck here.

You're a farmer and its nothing to do with how you could not be a commander in your NS days. Lots of people I know who are not farmers were downgraded. However your experience in your NS as a loser, when combined with your subsequent ORD life, in which you mistakenly believe you're better than the farmer that you are, have produced a macabre spectre, a satire, a joke for the children with a lesson for them to learn. You're the perfect cautionary tale. The naked king without clothes. The peasant who doesn't know the size of his hoe.

The only difference between you, a farmer, and the farmers in the SAF, is you didn't qualify for command school when in NS. And that you a farmer make even less money than them, who are also farmers. You are merely a farmer who's worth less than those farmers you're talking about.

Get your mom to buy you a mirror, peasant.

BTW, in your farmer stupor a few days ago, you asked me "why dun i sign on if its so good"? LOL. You know the people who are cherry-picked, creamed off and painstakingly groomed in the SAF to eventually run the country, they are my sec schoolmates, after school football buds, friends in university. I'm not presuming I'm so good that I'd have been one of them for sure if i tried. But if I tried I'd have somewhat of a shot even if I failed.

As for you, you're so far off from the universe of non farmers, you're the posterboy of the delusional farmer ho' with a hoe digging with your changkul dreaming (yuppie) dreams. You're a farmer earning less than other farmers, yet have the cheek to think you're greater than other farmers. Other, being the operative word. You're just so sad.

Enough with the preachy "Oh I post such constructive comments". You're making us puke since you've been exposed and embarrassed countless times and we know you're a phoney. (refer to Navy thread)

insidestory SG

i was an nsf officer, so heres some advice based on what i've seen from the regulars around me.

i dont think reaching captain is an issue, in fact, other than being a logistics officer, i believe you should be able to end your saf career with at least a major 2 or a LTC drawing mayb....8k about there? vocation matters i think. usually armour and commandos and guards advance faster i think. but of course these are the much tougher ones.

regarding advancement of studies, i doubt that will happen. the army doesnt really send ppl to further their studies, dont think its much use to them either. but at the end of the day, i guess it all depends on whether you dont mind putting on the green uniform everyday serving your country, or lead the life that most of the people here lead, outside with unlimited prospects. the choice is really yours.

Threadstarter, Diploma holders have no problems reaching LTC.

Vocation matters A LOT, acurara is correct and what he's said is accurate. The better your vocation, the brighter your prospects. The best prospects lie in combat vocations, there are four infantry arms - infantry, guards, commando and armour. out of these, commando would advance the fastest, if all things are equal (comparing a group of men of equal intellect, competency, fitness). commando is the only one that has the slight edge over the other infantry arms. The rest, infantry, guards and armour do not. guards is just infantry by the way. the only people who don't know that, are combat service support people and non commanders.

Below combat arms, would be combat support arms - artillery, signals and combat engineers. They provide support. And they do not advance in careers as quickly, this is obvious why. Because they're combat support only, not on the frontline. You also rarely find an officer from a combat support background heading a brigade. The only instance signing on in combat support has little effect is when you're a SAFOS.

Below combat support arms are the ones at the bottom. Combat service support. These people are the engineers (not the same as combat engineers) and the logistics people. Service support is the lowest on the rung. Its the least military in nature. The upside of service support is that the job nature itself is more transferable and close to non military professions, you can very easily find a job in logistics or engineering after your retire. But obviously, for the same reason, its also why support service the least specialised within the SAF. From what and the way you write, I know you have the intelligence to understand this. Unlike some stupid embarrassing fool here. LOL.

Dip holders like was said earlier, have no problems reaching LTC.The salary of a LTC with diploma is between $8k to $10k. One regular officer I know from poly, is able to buy his own condo at 31. Of course his wife is also working, and they have two kids.

All these farmers talk in this thread, talking about "the future" and "outside" (hahaha). I doubt any of them can make that amount at the end of their lives in the private sector (hahaha).

insidestory SG

Diploma holder?

What diploma?

Surely you have a couse of study for that diploma.

Please go into the relevant field.

What the logic if you got something like a Dip in Radiation Therapy and you want to become a Military Police officer.

Is there a course in poly called military police course or police course? So are the people in military police, or police in SPF, did they study in a wizard's school? Or did they study in normal courses in poly and university like everyone else and then go to police academy/OCS and go through on the job training and also professional courses while working? What courses and universities do the SAF scholars attend? Military universities? Or do they study civilian courses like everyone else in Penn and Cambridge?

You a retard too I see.

Lokey SG

Get your mom to buy you a mirror, peasant.

Enough with the preachy "Oh I post such constructive comments". You're making us puke since you've been exposed and embarrassed countless times and we know you're a phoney. (refer to Navy thread)

It is amazing that you are an officer. Dont you think that you are demonstrating a poor example as leader here. What type of leader who shows no respect for his men? I think you have forgot that most of your footmen are likely to be LCP or CPL, who did not get into cadet school? Is that what is being thought in cadet school that you are superior than others? And for every post you make you are scolding people,retard, moron.

I think your farmers concept comes from "Rich Dad Poor Dad" or similar books? It is not exclusively right but it is not wrong either.

To me you are very funny,

On one hand you say signing on is good, yet SAF dont offer you overseas scholarships as they do for me when I am in JC? Why dont you pick up the offer and join SAF for 6 years and later join PAP, then MP? Do you notice that most of forumers are advising TS to consider the bond carefully, asking them to have a taste of military life before signing on? Their views are neutral, and not putting down on TS to make his decision. And yet you are sweeping every1 down and condemning them as farmer, without knowing these people at all.

You talk about promotions and yet you dont know the politics and internal affairs? Or you are just a low rank 1 choco bar officer in Army, you dont know much.

And... there is such a thing called "Freedom". For other jobs, when one dont like the boss or job, one just throw him a resignation letter, one cannot do the same in SAF.

stackofnotes SG

It really depends on what is motivating you to consider a military career. Like most of everyone here has advised, I suggest going through BMT to get a taste of the lifestlye before you decide. I've always wanted to try for OCS, simply because I wanted to see how far I could go with my time spent in there, but the first few weeks of BMT was hell for me and I almost gave up.

I believe promotions in SAF are based on your career estimated potential (CEP). Every regular, depending on a number of criteria - one of which being academic achievements, is given a CEP rank which denotes the maximum rank he/she can attain. I'm taking a stab in the dark here but I think diploma holders are Maj/LTC, degree holders who were offered scholarships like SAS,SMS,SAFOS are COL and above. Not sure about LSA holders but I would say it's LTC+ and above.

So if you sign up at the age of 20 and your CEP is MAJ, you have 25 years to climb up 4 ranks (2LT, LTA, CPT, MAJ). Doubtful you will reach CPT after 3 years of service and spend the next 2 decades stuck at that rank. SAF will probably spread it out and use it to encourage you to stay.

"Scholars", as so many people would call them, have many more ranks to burn through in the same number of years so it would make sense that their promotion would seem quicker. Unfortunately, the nature of our society makes these people extremely valuable as assets and SAF is anything but dumb. With constant promotion and attractive pay packages, SAF can keep their leaders from bleeding out into the private sector.

So, yes. You will likely see 2LT for a year or so, and LTA/CPT for a long, long time. You will likely hate those "scholars" who only wore their 2LT epaulette during their commissioning parade and LTA for a year or less, breeze through CPT in a few years and become a Maj, whilst you are still sporting your LTA. Don't want to rain on your parade but such is life.. Singapore isn't a very forgiving society when it comes to education, I'm afraid.

My reasons for signing were:

1) University has always been my goal since I was a kid, but I couldn't afford it without my parents' help. SAF offered to pay for me. My tuition fees + living expenses are astronomically high and I would be in debt to some bank for many, many years if I had to pay for them myself.

2) The offer given to me ensured that I could immediately, and totally stop relying on my parents financially. My parents, being hard working adults from the baby boomer generation deserves to enjoy the fruit of their labour and I doubt spending the last of their savings on their leech of a son is what they had in mind.

3) Guaranteed employment upon graduation. Job prospects didn't seem promising a couple of years ago and I figure the years in Uni and subsequently serving my bond would let me ride out the bleak economy comfortably and once I'm done, I could hit the ground running and have savings to look for a second career I would really enjoy.
I've have friends who have graduated many months ago but are now getting allowance from their parents because they couldn't find a job.

So those are my reasons. It is mainly to prepare myself for my next step in life. Whenever I start to regret my decision, I look back to these and I'll feel better.

Which is why I suggest you think long and hard and formulate a list of reasons for signing (or not signing for that matter) because these will keep you going when your passion, or whatever floats your boat, starts to burn low.

Also, don't believe your own eyes or the words of others who have not been through that the life of an officer is all fun and games. In fact, don't even believe the advertisements you see or those recruitment CPTs who will visit tekong a few weeks into BMT, who will have you believe that being an officer is all about wearing your number 1 and posing in cool positions. Don't let power be your motivation to join the officer corp because power you are given is something you should learn to respect and fear.

Anyways, you will spend aprox >60% of your time planning missions, >30% presenting those plans, ~5% executing those plans, and ~5% training for your next appointment. Powerpoint Rangers is probably one of the names you will have to get used to. But it can be rewarding and you get to experience a lot more than anyone else. Although sometimes, it feels like you to have to experience a lot of nasty things before it gets rewarding. Same could be said for everything in life, I guess.

Lokey SG

My reasons for signing were:

So those are my reasons. It is mainly to prepare myself for my next step in life. Whenever I start to regret my decision, I look back to these and I'll feel better.

What you say is true. especially for the work distribution part. Degree holder are stuck in the office most of the time, entertaining Bill Gates' greatest invention.

The King Of Kings SG

thanks for all the advices.

if it is possible, i will try for commandos/guards/armour becos to me, if i wanna sign on, i might as well sign those with a better pay, at least that could keep me going. Of cos i wouldnt know whether WILL IT really keep me going, but i hope it will.

just to clarify, will there be any difference if i sign cammando officer and other vocations, cos i heard cdos are specialised vocation, what i was tinking is that i could sign commando officer and the farmer/scholar system would not be treated as too impt.

and does the pay of MP and commando/guards/armour/ officers' pay have a big difference? i know i have a very big range of what i wan but afterall, i still have to find out more of other different vocations before i decide on my decision.

and i reallyreally thank you guys for your comments. thanks again

will4 SG

I think your farmers concept comes from "Rich Dad Poor Dad" or similar books? It is not exclusively right but it is not wrong either.

To me you are very funny,

You talk about promotions and yet you dont know the politics and internal affairs? Or you are just a low rank 1 choco bar officer in Army, you dont know much.

And... there is such a thing called "Freedom". For other jobs, when one dont like the boss or job, one just throw him a resignation letter, one cannot do the same in SAF.

I also agreed that to sign on need to consider carefully esp if the applicant decided to break bond, there is a need to pay back.

insidestory SG

I think your farmers concept comes from "Rich Dad Poor Dad" or similar books? It is not exclusively right but it is not wrong either.

To me you are very funny,

You talk about promotions and yet you dont know the politics and internal affairs? Or you are just a low rank 1 choco bar officer in Army, you dont know much.

And... there is such a thing called "Freedom". For other jobs, when one dont like the boss or job, one just throw him a resignation letter, one cannot do the same in SAF.

Farmer, my concept of farmer, is the concept of farmer in Singapore and its well known by all (all non retards) in the country. It's not from "Rich Dad Poor Dad", you fucking retard.

Do you notice that the forum is made up of mostly LCP and CPL but I only call you a retard and moron? I'm also friends with many of my men. They aren't officers,oh and some of them are from ITE, but they are most definitely NOT retard or moron like you. We hang out and chat all the time talking nonsense about football and life. When i talk to you online, I visualise in real life you're drooling and unable to clap your hands in sync like a retarded kid.

Your farmerhood's got nothing to do with you being unable to go to OCS. The only time I mention that you're not an officer is when you bash regulars and officers here, which you do so often and which we react with irony. So I remind you that you're a farmer. Just that you're a farmer wearing CVs. Which means you're a farmer, except unlike them you didn't even make it to OCS. Even lower farmer.

I have lots of school friends who didn't go to OCS also but they're most definitely not farmers but scoot off to the states and Cambridge to become top graduates after NS.

Only a dumb local grad can be so cut off from the universe and what's happening in society to not know the definition. No wonder you're a farmer. how thoroughly well earned. Your stupidity and denial shine in increasing doses with each post count.

It has nothing to do being an officer lah. There are plenty and plenty of non officers in who are not farmers. In fact there are plenty of OMS/GIC scholars who aren't officers in their NS days, though they're a minority in the OMS cohort.

Are you or are you not a local grad? Can you deny that you're a local grad? What a dumb peasant in denial.

SAF does not offer even the kukujiao half fucked non entity LSA to people who are not in OCS you lying farmer. not even a 2 A1, 4A and 2 S paper distinctions OMS scholar (the civilian and slightly less prestigious version of SAFOS in their PSC family) can get an LSA when he's not in OCS. How can you not know that? if you're going to claim that you were in OCS, I'll bust you again like I did before. Quick go dig out and edit your posts in the past years.

Not only are you an exposed liar, your stupidity who never fails to do you in and proves to be your undoing is an effin' joke.

You're an effing dumb local farmer through and through with your shit english, farmer credentials, and plebeian life pushing pencils at minimum wage, and now you come up with another joke about being offered a military scholarship overseas when everyone knows you said you never made it command school?

You're the undisputed and biggest clown in the history of this forum. What a fucking loser.

Lokey SG

Farmer, my concept of farmer, is the concept of farmer in Singapore and its well known by all (all non retards) in the country. It's not from "Rich Dad Poor Dad", you fucking retard.

I have lots of school friends who didn't go to OCS also but they're most definitely not farmers but scoot off to the states and Cambridge to become top graduates after NS.

You're the undisputed and biggest clown in the history of this forum. What a fucking loser.

I can only see a joker, bashing me with a long paragraph of words, which I dont even bother to read. Go and do something useful, boy. Maybe pick up some courses or do some push ups will be good for you. If you are really smart, you would not waste time typing nonsense, posting it in public. That is my last piece of advice for you.

And... I will ignore you from now onwards.

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